i also donate a lot to sl, first I am a mentor and donate a few hours a week to sl, second I donate a lot of land and my time as a builder for groups such as the Deaf isl, and the eLearning Guild. donate? i don’t get much out of it (a few flickr pics is about it, woot). i will also be donating the use of a full sim for two months to the latter group. and finally, i probably give away about $4000L a week. to noobs, some friends, and strangers that seem to have a passion isl. maybe i am a big sucker, but i prefer to belive that people are typically good. i would hate to view it the other way around

why? cause if sl prospers, it helps me. maybe i can’t measure much of that, but maybe it makes the diff in one person or two and so on. and maybe sl is around longer? sl only exists and succeeds on the efforts of it’s residents.

i am personally not into concerts, or anything audio based, but am glad that it is a great outlet and mechanism for peeps to share their passion with others.

and one thing i most love about sl is the collaboration. why just today, what could easily have been construed as a very aggressive act turned out to be a glimpse at a very passionate, and well balanced person. they indeed know who they are and thank you

ps - this is all just my opinion and nothing more

The fact is, many startup venues ask me to perform, to which I often volunteer to play for free. Sure I make descent L$ in tips as I usually pack the venues. I hope this clears up any misconceptions.

As far as the label given to me, I do not know the exact date but I believe it was an SL Enquirer reporter who wrote something along the lines of “Mankind Tracer’s fans dub him ‘SL’s Premiere Rock Performer’, and we agree”. You are free to contact them for a transcript if it still exists.

Lastly, as much as I would love to, I cannot spend my time picking off every point someone makes. I own two RL businesses which are what I need to focus on. If you happen to catch me inworld for a few minutes, I would be happy to talk. I further cannot tolerate drama in either SL or RL. That being said, I offer this as I my final post here.

All the best.

M

Mankind, I am glad you are joining the discussion.

Honestly, I have been to three of your performances and enjoyed them thoroughly.

The new artists program is a great idea if excecuted properly.

I know you are open to negotiation on your fee as are all SL musicians I know of. And to state a rediculously high price like 10k is probably the first step of a negotiation technique, and that is fine too.

And i also understand that a number of sl musicians are in the business to make a living, and though I disagree that sl is really the place for that, I have nothing against people trying to do so, and attempting to get paid an amount similar to what they would get for a rl performance.

Regarding contacting you personally to discuss this; I do not think this is a personal matter. Rather one that the sl community at large should be aware of.

Let me quote the original article for reference to my subsequent questions:

“Mankind is attempting to plan a “big” two hour rock concert, broadcast over 20-30 sims, with the cost to the sim owner being a staggering $8000 lindens per venue… but wait … half of that will go to start “Mankind Tracer New Artist Program”…. hmmm 30 X 8000 = $240,000.00 Lindens… half… $120,000 lindens is going to start the “Mankind Tracer New Artist Program” to “provide promising new SL musical artists, who have shown initiative and strong work ethics, the opportunity to play live in SL by way of a free stream, introductions to club/sim owners and help in developing their in world talent.” - Weirdharold.

Firstly I want to ask you if you think a 2 hour show should be considered a major event. Even if the rest of SL considered you to be “SL’s Premiere Rock Performer!” The amount of money involved and the widespread nature of the event really begs for a longer more impressive lineup, (no offence)

I recall an event at Menorca slightly less than a year ago. Had a lineup of maybe 10 performances and was to my knowledge the first major event where sl musicians from around the world played together at the same time in the same song (multicasting?). It was an impressive event. And ya know what? It was free. Honestly I would have payed a cover charge for that even though i am against charging for music in sl. As mentioned before, go to cascadia on a saturday night and it will help you define what a big rock concert is. 8 hours of live music from some of sl’s best rock performers new and established.

The money involved could hire a seriously impressive lineup. However as it is considered a charity event I know you could make a great lineup just from volunteers. So why is it just you?

“I HAVE seen other artists charging exhorbitant amounts from residents for their concert tickets.” I have never seen this myself. In fact I dont understant how that would even work. Venues tried to set a cover charge a long time ago and it caused a serious rift in the community. It was discussed recently among venue owners and caused another major argument. And it simply cant work as sl artists play multiple venues and if one is charging and another isnt the residents go to the one that isnt. Would you mind telling us what was the circumstances of that event?
Staying on the subject of money, What exactly will this money be used for? Helping new artists is a great goal, but it doesnt require huge amounts of money. It requires helping them understand the virtual live medium they are now in and helping them get exposure and gigs. Is the money for prim guitars? Stream rental isnt that expensive, around 4k for a month as i understand it, and you wont need a stream for each artist as they will not all be playing together. Hiring helpers for the musicians? I know a long queue of people who are live music enthusiasts that will gladly give their time for free. Is it for rl advertising and promotion? For making the bridge to rl through cd production? Could you please explain that to us.

Now i would like to address your self promotion which, as i have said, I find a bit condescending. I dont mean this as a personal attack rather as a statement of opinion.

Slim Warrior created the Independant Musicians group for the purpose of musicans to advertise performances. She specifically states that it is not to be used for promotion of venues, even by musicians. I have owned and know people who own live music venues and we would love to advertise our places on that group, but we dont as it is against the rules. I have seen you do just this exact thing more than once, a while back when you were opening a stage ascociated with the mtnap and more recntly I think when you opened your self titled venue. Do you think these actions are reasonable? Or was it just a genuine mistake?

“SL’s Premiere Rock Performer!” Can you please let us know who it was exactly that said that and in what publication please? I know you seem to think that just cause someone said that about you it is reasonable to put it in every bit of promotional text ascociated with you. I could easily start an sl publication and become a reviewer for it and state that someone is SL’s best performer ever! Would it make it correct? Would the person be justified in using it as a personal motto? I dont think so. What is your opinion on that please?

I believe that you are of the school of thought that if you act as if something is true and get enough people believing and repeating it that it becomes true. And that is a perfectly fine strategy that has probably worked for you in the past, and is working for you now if you use group size and pesonal wealth as a measure of success. I wont tell you how to do business. But sl is a tight community and such an attitude will likely piss some people off. If your goals are fame and money that is a fine, people love rock stars for their arrogance, but understand that some people will question your motives.

Please dont take this as an attack against you I am interested in hearing your responses and am willing to change my opinions based upon your replies and subsequent actions.

I look forward to reading your replies.

Thanks for your time.

I appreciate what you have said although I disagree with the majority of it. I will not expend my finger muscles to reflect on all particular instances however, I will simply say firstly, the title of “SL’S Premiere Rock Performer” was not self labeled. I am honored by the title and yes I do agree there are many, many talented artists in SL who are as good or better than me. However, it is to be decided by a majority, not an indivudual’s claim, as to whether or not an SL artist is worth a crap!

Secondly, the amount which venue owners are willing to pay for my performances is paid out of their own decision to pay it and of course their affordability. If they find I am worthy of L$2k, that’s what they pay, if it’s L$10K, then so be it! Further, if you are so knowledgable about me, then you would know that I also play for free quite often, a fact you failed to mention. I sometimes do this to help newer veneus get a boost as I usually draw close to 100 ppl at my performances (since this is the max that most sims can handle). If they were able to hold more, there would be more. The smaller sims that only hold 40 people will usually crash before I arrive to take the stage, since there are at least that many in attendance before I arrive.

I don’t know about other artists’ fees nor am I concerned with them. I am here to play music and do my part to bring something, that which I as an individual can offer, into SL; that being my music. I HAVE seen other artists charging exhorbitant amounts from residents for their concert tickets. I do not personally charge residents for my performances, nor will I.

I offer that if you are at odds with my methodology, turn the other cheek. There are many residents in SL that will stand up and be counted as fans of mine but more than that, my friends. I am not here in SL or RL for that matter to please everyone, nor will I try. If you truly feel the need to attack someone, try putting your attention to those who deserve it.

I disagree with using a public forum to attack a person. If you have a problem with me or my actions, stand up man! Don’t be such a pussy! Talk to me personally and do it without hiding behind an alt. I am available to anyone who contacts me.

Mankind Tracer - SL’s Premiere Rock Performer!

I have heard Mankind Tracer play several times and I enjoy his show and consider him a talented musican and a great addition to the SL community. If his intentions are pure in regard to the new artists program then it is a worthy and worthwhile idea and deserves support.

However, I have become aware recently of a lot of self promotion from mankind’s direction to the point where it is getting annoying. There are plenty of other artists in SL that are as good as or better than mankind, depending of course on your personal preferences. The tagline “SL’s Premier performer” to me is an insult to the community and the other artists that comprise it. I have seen mankind place lengthy ad’s for his venue in groups that specifically prohibit the advertising of venues, and again that is a mark of disrespect to all the other venue owners that specifically hold back from doing the same, and to the people kind enough to set up and maintain the groups. In short I find his attitude to be condescending.

There are several other venues in sl that put on regular large events weekly and for free. The Cascadia sim hosts 2 shows a week usually of 6-8 hours duration featuring the best musicians in sl, I know that they dont pay more than maybe 2-3k for a performer and the performers are always back and are always pleased to perform. On the menorca sim there are live music events almost every day of the week and I am almost certain that they only pay tips.

I have been interested in sl music since I started sl 3 years ago and include several musicians, venue owners and organisers among my friends, and I know that 10000L$ is a rediculous amount of money to pay a musician, unless you are particularily wealthy and can run a venue at those costs. From my experience I would guess that venues pay on average about 2-3k. No ofence to Mankind, but compared to a lot of the rest of talented musicans in sl, he isnt in any way special enough to be insisting on larger fees, or, again, to be making claims that he is the best.

Harleywood, your part in this discussion ended when you resorted to personal attacks.

My apologies for hiding behind an alt for this post as I dont want any conection to be drawn between my opinions and those of the people that I work with on the music scene.

It’s fascinating how it starts out as talking about what a musician is worth (where I am happy to throw in my lindens and my support, in those cases where I am involved) and then switches to talk about the part of some kinds of events that I usually put down as “scam”, because it’s loads of people who actually don’t do zilch in SL but rip off the musician who employs them.

Yes, you need advertising and organization - but come on, what do you need a production whatever to _sell_ an idea of something other people do regularily on SL? If you need someone to sell you the idea of doing an event on multiple sims, you really should crawl up from below your rock, because the last year must have been gone by you without you noticing anything. Get real. There are only so many things that need to be done for an SL event and that’s spread on a few people easily - and oftentimes those people do their chore for free and fun. I still have to see any “promoter” doing anything in SL worth the money you throw at them …

So in a way - if the big talk about the big team has any substance, there is another alternative to benevolent benefactor and scam artist: scam victim

Readers, I will not respond to personal attacks. I see no need in wasting the time, I published the note card from which I gathered the information. I suspect you can make your own determination.