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	<title>Comments on: Can of worms: another GamersBrand bargain?</title>
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	<description>VTOR - Virtual TO Reality, featuring Second Life</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Pau</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-11180</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Pau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-11180</guid>
		<description>Wow, its really been a year since this? Time passes quick in RL and SL.

Anyways, this is Doug Pau. I was working on some things in SL earlier when someone reminded me and a staff member about this blog post that arose a year ago. I got some free time right now so I figured I&#039;d update this so its not left unsaid

Not a single person ever contacted us about removing any of our Freebies.

As always we only offer freebies we created, our developers created, or that were given to us by the original owners or someone with proper permissions.

A year has passed and we no longer just offer free items and help for new players. We now offer free advertising for new businesses on our grid-wide network RezAds.com, and we offer custom designed rent-free standalone stores on mainland roadside to help new sellers/creators a chance to sell their products with $0L overhead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, its really been a year since this? Time passes quick in RL and SL.</p>
<p>Anyways, this is Doug Pau. I was working on some things in SL earlier when someone reminded me and a staff member about this blog post that arose a year ago. I got some free time right now so I figured I&#8217;d update this so its not left unsaid</p>
<p>Not a single person ever contacted us about removing any of our Freebies.</p>
<p>As always we only offer freebies we created, our developers created, or that were given to us by the original owners or someone with proper permissions.</p>
<p>A year has passed and we no longer just offer free items and help for new players. We now offer free advertising for new businesses on our grid-wide network RezAds.com, and we offer custom designed rent-free standalone stores on mainland roadside to help new sellers/creators a chance to sell their products with $0L overhead.</p>
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		<title>By: Perefim Cao</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9773</link>
		<dc:creator>Perefim Cao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9773</guid>
		<description>Caliandris,

 &quot;Have GamersBrand commissioned articles for giving away?&quot; 

I love how you answer this no, even though Gamersbrand commissioned over 1800US$ worth of items to be made for its use. Maybe you should check your facts before stating what Gamersbrand has and hasn&#039;t done. If you still dissagree I am sure Doug Pau can show you the reciepts on the transactions for the ordered items. This further more proves your going on assumptions rather than solid evidence.

Also you say that you leave the readeers to make up their own minds, yet when a commenter merely suggests alertinatives or possibilities you promptly shoot down any thing that doesn&#039;t directly agree with your perception of the situation. You leave no room for any possibilities and insist that your views are the only correct ones on the topic and everyone else is wrong but you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caliandris,</p>
<p> &#8220;Have GamersBrand commissioned articles for giving away?&#8221; </p>
<p>I love how you answer this no, even though Gamersbrand commissioned over 1800US$ worth of items to be made for its use. Maybe you should check your facts before stating what Gamersbrand has and hasn&#8217;t done. If you still dissagree I am sure Doug Pau can show you the reciepts on the transactions for the ordered items. This further more proves your going on assumptions rather than solid evidence.</p>
<p>Also you say that you leave the readeers to make up their own minds, yet when a commenter merely suggests alertinatives or possibilities you promptly shoot down any thing that doesn&#8217;t directly agree with your perception of the situation. You leave no room for any possibilities and insist that your views are the only correct ones on the topic and everyone else is wrong but you.</p>
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		<title>By: Caliandris Pendragon</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9772</link>
		<dc:creator>Caliandris Pendragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9772</guid>
		<description>Perefim, you said: &quot;Why cutdown gamersbrand for being willing to correct an honest error. &quot;

*Is* that what they are doing?  I don&#039;t think it was an honest error, and I don&#039;t think they are correcting it.  Look at the Gnubie store - *that&#039;s* how to run an honest freebie store.  This is a ripoff palace.  Have GamersBrand commissioned articles for giving away?  Have they checked the items with the creators to ensure that the freebies ought to be free and the other items ought to be sold.  No. This isn&#039;t an honest mistake, it is exploitation of the creators&#039; work to fulfil the greed of people to gain something for nothing.

They are not now removing all items and checking with the creators, they are waiting for them to complain and ask for them to be taken down.

I leave the readers to make their own mind up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perefim, you said: &#8220;Why cutdown gamersbrand for being willing to correct an honest error. &#8221;</p>
<p>*Is* that what they are doing?  I don&#8217;t think it was an honest error, and I don&#8217;t think they are correcting it.  Look at the Gnubie store &#8211; *that&#8217;s* how to run an honest freebie store.  This is a ripoff palace.  Have GamersBrand commissioned articles for giving away?  Have they checked the items with the creators to ensure that the freebies ought to be free and the other items ought to be sold.  No. This isn&#8217;t an honest mistake, it is exploitation of the creators&#8217; work to fulfil the greed of people to gain something for nothing.</p>
<p>They are not now removing all items and checking with the creators, they are waiting for them to complain and ask for them to be taken down.</p>
<p>I leave the readers to make their own mind up.</p>
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		<title>By: Perefim Cao</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9771</link>
		<dc:creator>Perefim Cao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9771</guid>
		<description>Caliandris,

  Why don&#039;t you look at it this way, look how many items they have, and how much time it would take for them to email, or phone on every item they buy to verify that they actually sold it with those rights. How do you know items that you buy every day aren&#039;t stolen, or how do you know when you go to a bank that you might not be getting handed a counterfit twenty dollar bill. There is such a vast majority of ways that so called &quot;Stolen&quot; items bleed into the market, and if the seller or creator truly wants to protect themselves they should consider using the in world permission settings so that way other users are not given permission to hand off items, or resell them. I feel it is the creators mistake if they didn&#039;t set the permissions correctly on their item. I own a very successful shop in SL, selling items I have created, I make sure to give them copy, and mod, but no transfer, and have never in my entire time as a professional content developer had anything of mine stolen. Another point is when I do contract work I do give the client full permissions, and by doing that I know I am freely signing over my rights to that item for the price on the invoice. So whenever I release an item into the SL market with full permissions mod,copy,trans I know very well that my items could and have a very high chance of being distributed any number of manners to anyone. If the creator wants to protect themself, put the appropriate permissions. If your looking for someone to blame then blame the &quot;theif&quot; and if your looking for the theif it isn&#039;t Gamers brand.

Also in regards to your comment &quot; The fact remains that even if GamersBrand are willing to take down things like that, they should never have been put up in the first place&quot;

Why cutdown gamersbrand for being willing to correct an honest error. it would be like you dropping something and it breaking, and then telling the owner of the object I am sorry I will replace it. Then the owner of the broken object would tell you... well if your willing to replace it why did you drop it in the first place!

Mistakes happen and atleast they are willing to do what they can to the best of their knowledge to follow all rules and regulations.. and since your post has even taken further measures in making sure that all items in question are either removed or have verified permission to be redistributed.

I also believe any further discussion this topic is only going to result in arguement, or senseless finger pointing without further evidence. I hope my views and opinions have brought a different perspective to the readers, I do not believe it would bring any progress for me to comment on the topic any further.

Thanks for your reply,

Perefim Cao</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caliandris,</p>
<p>  Why don&#8217;t you look at it this way, look how many items they have, and how much time it would take for them to email, or phone on every item they buy to verify that they actually sold it with those rights. How do you know items that you buy every day aren&#8217;t stolen, or how do you know when you go to a bank that you might not be getting handed a counterfit twenty dollar bill. There is such a vast majority of ways that so called &#8220;Stolen&#8221; items bleed into the market, and if the seller or creator truly wants to protect themselves they should consider using the in world permission settings so that way other users are not given permission to hand off items, or resell them. I feel it is the creators mistake if they didn&#8217;t set the permissions correctly on their item. I own a very successful shop in SL, selling items I have created, I make sure to give them copy, and mod, but no transfer, and have never in my entire time as a professional content developer had anything of mine stolen. Another point is when I do contract work I do give the client full permissions, and by doing that I know I am freely signing over my rights to that item for the price on the invoice. So whenever I release an item into the SL market with full permissions mod,copy,trans I know very well that my items could and have a very high chance of being distributed any number of manners to anyone. If the creator wants to protect themself, put the appropriate permissions. If your looking for someone to blame then blame the &#8220;theif&#8221; and if your looking for the theif it isn&#8217;t Gamers brand.</p>
<p>Also in regards to your comment &#8221; The fact remains that even if GamersBrand are willing to take down things like that, they should never have been put up in the first place&#8221;</p>
<p>Why cutdown gamersbrand for being willing to correct an honest error. it would be like you dropping something and it breaking, and then telling the owner of the object I am sorry I will replace it. Then the owner of the broken object would tell you&#8230; well if your willing to replace it why did you drop it in the first place!</p>
<p>Mistakes happen and atleast they are willing to do what they can to the best of their knowledge to follow all rules and regulations.. and since your post has even taken further measures in making sure that all items in question are either removed or have verified permission to be redistributed.</p>
<p>I also believe any further discussion this topic is only going to result in arguement, or senseless finger pointing without further evidence. I hope my views and opinions have brought a different perspective to the readers, I do not believe it would bring any progress for me to comment on the topic any further.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply,</p>
<p>Perefim Cao</p>
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		<title>By: Caliandris Pendragon</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9770</link>
		<dc:creator>Caliandris Pendragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9770</guid>
		<description>Perefim:
GamersBrand have many items for sale or for free on their island which have been sold to them by people who did not have the right to do that.  I don&#039;t know what your definition of &quot;take&quot; is, but I would say that someone who does the SL equivalent of buying a car stereo in a pub is &quot;taking&quot; even if they paid the thief for the goods.

The fact remains that even if GamersBrand are willing to take down things like that, they should never have been put up in the first place.  The onus lies with them to be sure they have the right to copy, sell or give away things before they do it, not with the creators to chase around the grid trying to prevent this from happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perefim:<br />
GamersBrand have many items for sale or for free on their island which have been sold to them by people who did not have the right to do that.  I don&#8217;t know what your definition of &#8220;take&#8221; is, but I would say that someone who does the SL equivalent of buying a car stereo in a pub is &#8220;taking&#8221; even if they paid the thief for the goods.</p>
<p>The fact remains that even if GamersBrand are willing to take down things like that, they should never have been put up in the first place.  The onus lies with them to be sure they have the right to copy, sell or give away things before they do it, not with the creators to chase around the grid trying to prevent this from happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Perefim Cao</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9769</link>
		<dc:creator>Perefim Cao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9769</guid>
		<description>Caliandris: 
&quot; I leave other people to make their own minds up. If you think it is a jolly good thing to take other people’s work and make it free to copy, then I respect your right to have your own opinion.&quot;

Now, I don&#039;t believe that is what I was posting. First when you say &quot;take&quot; in the context makes it sound like your saying that not only are you accusing Gamersbrand of stealing the items and making them free to copy, but you also sound like your calling me a theif as well, and that I approve of stealing others work. I have in no manner said anything against your personal character, only the possibility that you may have made an error in your judgement on a SL service. As I have stated many times before, to the best of my knowledge gamers brand purchased those items legally, if he is giving them away instead of buying them to resell for profit then more power to him. If you believe that I would support or stand up for someone committing criminal or illegal activites then I have several highly respected developers, company CEO&#039;s and island administrators that would be willing to say otherwise.

Thank you for your reply,

Perefim Cao</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caliandris:<br />
&#8221; I leave other people to make their own minds up. If you think it is a jolly good thing to take other people’s work and make it free to copy, then I respect your right to have your own opinion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t believe that is what I was posting. First when you say &#8220;take&#8221; in the context makes it sound like your saying that not only are you accusing Gamersbrand of stealing the items and making them free to copy, but you also sound like your calling me a theif as well, and that I approve of stealing others work. I have in no manner said anything against your personal character, only the possibility that you may have made an error in your judgement on a SL service. As I have stated many times before, to the best of my knowledge gamers brand purchased those items legally, if he is giving them away instead of buying them to resell for profit then more power to him. If you believe that I would support or stand up for someone committing criminal or illegal activites then I have several highly respected developers, company CEO&#8217;s and island administrators that would be willing to say otherwise.</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply,</p>
<p>Perefim Cao</p>
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		<title>By: caliandris</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9767</link>
		<dc:creator>caliandris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9767</guid>
		<description>Thanks TD.  Actually I was up all night talking in a long notecard back-and-forth with Doug Pau.  I didn&#039;t quote him because I thought the facts spoke for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks TD.  Actually I was up all night talking in a long notecard back-and-forth with Doug Pau.  I didn&#8217;t quote him because I thought the facts spoke for themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: caliandris</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9766</link>
		<dc:creator>caliandris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9766</guid>
		<description>Bob:
Not only do I not delete comments, I actually left my luctrative blogging post at SecondLifeInsider because they banned Prokofy from making comments that I disagreed with on the blog.  I leave other people to make up their own minds, and respect your right to disagree with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob:<br />
Not only do I not delete comments, I actually left my luctrative blogging post at SecondLifeInsider because they banned Prokofy from making comments that I disagreed with on the blog.  I leave other people to make up their own minds, and respect your right to disagree with me.</p>
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		<title>By: caliandris</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9765</link>
		<dc:creator>caliandris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9765</guid>
		<description>Perefim:
I leave other people to make their own minds up.  If you think it is a jolly good thing to take other people&#039;s work and make it free to copy, then I respect your right to have your own opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perefim:<br />
I leave other people to make their own minds up.  If you think it is a jolly good thing to take other people&#8217;s work and make it free to copy, then I respect your right to have your own opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: TD Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/comment-page-1/#comment-9761</link>
		<dc:creator>TD Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 02:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/can-of-worms-another-gamersbrand-bargain/1330/#comment-9761</guid>
		<description>&quot;you’ll also probably delete any comments that dont agree with you&quot;

No, Bob, our group doesn&#039;t do that. In fact, we tend to encourage conversation and correction, where applicable. 

&quot;this blog is very bias also.&quot;
Really? And you know that after reading one post? Two? Five?

&quot;you probably spent more time looking for flaws than you did talking to doug pau.&quot;

Actually, there is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/update-on-gamersbrand-take-down/1337/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;follow-up post here&lt;/a&gt; where Caliandris not only indicates speaking to doug, but encouraging any others with problems with DMCA concerns that they speak to him directly about object takedowns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you’ll also probably delete any comments that dont agree with you&#8221;</p>
<p>No, Bob, our group doesn&#8217;t do that. In fact, we tend to encourage conversation and correction, where applicable. </p>
<p>&#8220;this blog is very bias also.&#8221;<br />
Really? And you know that after reading one post? Two? Five?</p>
<p>&#8220;you probably spent more time looking for flaws than you did talking to doug pau.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, there is a <a href="http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/update-on-gamersbrand-take-down/1337/">follow-up post here</a> where Caliandris not only indicates speaking to doug, but encouraging any others with problems with DMCA concerns that they speak to him directly about object takedowns.</p>
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