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	<title>Comments on: Virtual Legality &#8212; Food for Thought</title>
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	<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/</link>
	<description>VTOR - Virtual TO Reality, featuring Second Life</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: karz</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9653</link>
		<dc:creator>karz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9653</guid>
		<description>The most logical and realistic conclusion really is that we build a virtual world in a sense we don't wanna deal with the real world. My next statement would be..should a crime perpetuated in a virtual world be made punishable in the real world? Of course not!That's the very reason why we created the VR world on the first place. Like war games where there are killings and massacres. they are only meant to be simulations. Therefore, if your not comfy with it. Log-off. Plug-out.

The real world has too many problems in itself that its systems has proved to be ineffective. Why carry that over to the virtual world? That brings us to many hidden agendas which are just beginning to unfold in our time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most logical and realistic conclusion really is that we build a virtual world in a sense we don&#8217;t wanna deal with the real world. My next statement would be..should a crime perpetuated in a virtual world be made punishable in the real world? Of course not!That&#8217;s the very reason why we created the VR world on the first place. Like war games where there are killings and massacres. they are only meant to be simulations. Therefore, if your not comfy with it. Log-off. Plug-out.</p>
<p>The real world has too many problems in itself that its systems has proved to be ineffective. Why carry that over to the virtual world? That brings us to many hidden agendas which are just beginning to unfold in our time.</p>
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		<title>By: karz</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9619</link>
		<dc:creator>karz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 03:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9619</guid>
		<description>yea..it seems governments may at will transgress privacy rights in favor of national security..
would individual rights always yield? matters such as prior censorship still violate rights on due process..notice and hearing..besides you need a court order to justify such means..for admissibility of evidence.

of course the law does not prosecute pedophiles..only acts of pedophilia..
or terrorism for that matter..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yea..it seems governments may at will transgress privacy rights in favor of national security..<br />
would individual rights always yield? matters such as prior censorship still violate rights on due process..notice and hearing..besides you need a court order to justify such means..for admissibility of evidence.</p>
<p>of course the law does not prosecute pedophiles..only acts of pedophilia..<br />
or terrorism for that matter..</p>
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		<title>By: Weirdharold</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9618</link>
		<dc:creator>Weirdharold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9618</guid>
		<description>Dr  Everard,
Thank you for stopping by and commenting.  For those that don't know, Dr. Everard is a PhD in International relations and in Cultural Studies and the author of &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Virtual states: the internet and the boundaries of the nation-state.&lt;/span&gt;  Teaches hypermedia in the English and Theatre Studies Department at Australian National University. He also works(ed) [not sure which] as a policy analyst at the Australian Department of Defense

I would have like to have read his book before commenting either here or on the blog, but it was written in 1999 and there is nowhere in this little country town where i can run pick up a copy. I guess he is still making enough sales from print on demand hasn't made those 96 pages available in Ebook form.&#160; I am able to find it on  &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-States-Internet-Boundaries-Nation/dp/0415172144/ref=sr_11_1/002-0059635-7692038?ie=UTF8&#38;qid=1182966275&#38;sr=11-1" rel="nofollow"&gt;Amazon&lt;/a&gt;, but if it is written with the same style as &lt;a href="http://lostbiro.com/blog/?page_id=791" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;SecondLife: Navigating Realities&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; I am not certain I care to order it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Yes this concept has come up several times in the past decade, but it elides the fact that cyber worlds - whether SecondLife or any other virtual space is hosted on real computer servers in real geographic locations governed by the laws of that geographic location.&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt; Come on now, honestly, is there really that much difference than a book laying on the ground of that real geographic location?&#160; Personally, I say not at all!&#160; In actuality, a book stores the thoughts of an individual or individuals in the form of text. The hard drive is made of paper and is read by sight and the mind transforms that into a "graphic" state. The Computer's (Server and PC) hard drive is a disk which stores a series of 1s and 0s and transforms them into text, and more; providing much more of the individuals thought information to the screen of the reader -- who then converts that into more detail through his/her brain filling cognitive details. 
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;It also elides the fact that the participants in these virtual worlds are real people who themselves are governed by the laws of whatever land they live in.&lt;/span&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt;Does this mean to you it is perfectly alright for the Australian government to control what people read, believe, think? Are you for the censoring of the type of information available to you, as a resident of Australia, because the politicians or special interest groups think you shouldn't have access to that information? Even without you acting on that information, not even allowing you to form an intelligent opinion?
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Virtual worlds are nothing more or less than open-ended phone calls - which themselves are governed by agreed national and international standards (arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union (ITU))&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;"Arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union." This make it right? Shouldn't the &lt;strong&gt;sovereignty&lt;/strong&gt; actually belong to the people? Especially in an area where their actions have no harm on the people around them?&#160; With virtual world information as with text from a book -- all actual end processing of the information absorbed is done inside of the mind of the person gathering that information;&#160; wouldn't you agree?
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;So, while idealistically people can move their avatars around a virtual ’space’ the only real space they take up is the ones and zeros of a computer located in some real place - which is subject to the laws of that land.&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt; Already discussed above.&lt;blockquote style="font-style: italic;"&gt;That way, real pedophiles can still be prosecuted even when they are operating avatars in virtual spaces.&lt;/blockquote&gt;You mean depending on where they live?&#160; No, I guess real pedophiles will commit the act in real life, and in my opinion will have done a horrible unforgivable thing in destroying the innocence of a child.

The question is do we know that allowing these acts in a virtual world, between consenting adults, would not help those with a tendency toward pedophilia control those urges and help them not have to perform the act in real life with a real child.

I believe you yourself have stated that the minds filling in of cognitive details in virtual worlds tends to blur the lines of real and imaginative.

If nothing else -- imagine the benefits of being able to study the tendencies of the pedophile in a surrounding where he can act in a more natural way. Do you not think the great academic minds would gain valuable insight into a behavior that has been so difficult to get accurate information about?

Most think the condition is not really treatable, but if it could actually be studied in a "safe" environment with new details and  understanding documented... Maybe, just maybe a better "treatment" could be devised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr  Everard,<br />
Thank you for stopping by and commenting.  For those that don&#8217;t know, Dr. Everard is a PhD in International relations and in Cultural Studies and the author of <span style="font-style: italic;">Virtual states: the internet and the boundaries of the nation-state.</span>  Teaches hypermedia in the English and Theatre Studies Department at Australian National University. He also works(ed) [not sure which] as a policy analyst at the Australian Department of Defense</p>
<p>I would have like to have read his book before commenting either here or on the blog, but it was written in 1999 and there is nowhere in this little country town where i can run pick up a copy. I guess he is still making enough sales from print on demand hasn&#8217;t made those 96 pages available in Ebook form.&nbsp; I am able to find it on  <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-States-Internet-Boundaries-Nation/dp/0415172144/ref=sr_11_1/002-0059635-7692038?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1182966275&amp;sr=11-1">Amazon</a>, but if it is written with the same style as <a href="http://lostbiro.com/blog/?page_id=791"><span style="font-style: italic;">SecondLife: Navigating Realities</span></a> I am not certain I care to order it.</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-style: italic;">Yes this concept has come up several times in the past decade, but it elides the fact that cyber worlds - whether SecondLife or any other virtual space is hosted on real computer servers in real geographic locations governed by the laws of that geographic location.</span>
</p></blockquote>
<p> Come on now, honestly, is there really that much difference than a book laying on the ground of that real geographic location?&nbsp; Personally, I say not at all!&nbsp; In actuality, a book stores the thoughts of an individual or individuals in the form of text. The hard drive is made of paper and is read by sight and the mind transforms that into a &#8220;graphic&#8221; state. The Computer&#8217;s (Server and PC) hard drive is a disk which stores a series of 1s and 0s and transforms them into text, and more; providing much more of the individuals thought information to the screen of the reader &#8212; who then converts that into more detail through his/her brain filling cognitive details. </p>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-style: italic;">It also elides the fact that the participants in these virtual worlds are real people who themselves are governed by the laws of whatever land they live in.</span> </p></blockquote>
<p>Does this mean to you it is perfectly alright for the Australian government to control what people read, believe, think? Are you for the censoring of the type of information available to you, as a resident of Australia, because the politicians or special interest groups think you shouldn&#8217;t have access to that information? Even without you acting on that information, not even allowing you to form an intelligent opinion?</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-style: italic;">Virtual worlds are nothing more or less than open-ended phone calls - which themselves are governed by agreed national and international standards (arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union (ITU))</span>
</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union.&#8221; This make it right? Shouldn&#8217;t the <strong>sovereignty</strong> actually belong to the people? Especially in an area where their actions have no harm on the people around them?&nbsp; With virtual world information as with text from a book &#8212; all actual end processing of the information absorbed is done inside of the mind of the person gathering that information;&nbsp; wouldn&#8217;t you agree?</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-style: italic;">So, while idealistically people can move their avatars around a virtual ’space’ the only real space they take up is the ones and zeros of a computer located in some real place - which is subject to the laws of that land.</span>
</p></blockquote>
<p> Already discussed above.<br />
<blockquote style="font-style: italic;">That way, real pedophiles can still be prosecuted even when they are operating avatars in virtual spaces.</p></blockquote>
<p>You mean depending on where they live?&nbsp; No, I guess real pedophiles will commit the act in real life, and in my opinion will have done a horrible unforgivable thing in destroying the innocence of a child.</p>
<p>The question is do we know that allowing these acts in a virtual world, between consenting adults, would not help those with a tendency toward pedophilia control those urges and help them not have to perform the act in real life with a real child.</p>
<p>I believe you yourself have stated that the minds filling in of cognitive details in virtual worlds tends to blur the lines of real and imaginative.</p>
<p>If nothing else &#8212; imagine the benefits of being able to study the tendencies of the pedophile in a surrounding where he can act in a more natural way. Do you not think the great academic minds would gain valuable insight into a behavior that has been so difficult to get accurate information about?</p>
<p>Most think the condition is not really treatable, but if it could actually be studied in a &#8220;safe&#8221; environment with new details and  understanding documented&#8230; Maybe, just maybe a better &#8220;treatment&#8221; could be devised.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9617</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9617</guid>
		<description>Yes this concept has come up several times in the past decade, but it elides the fact that cyber worlds - whether SecondLife or any other virtual space is hosted on real computer servers in real geographic locations governed by the laws of that geographic location. 

It also elides the fact that the participants in these virtual worlds are real people who themselves are governed by the laws of whatever land they live in. Virtual worlds are nothing more or less than open-ended phone calls - which themselves are governed by agreed national and international standards (arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union (ITU)).

So, while idealistically people can move their avatars around a virtual 'space' the only real space they take up is the ones and zeros of a computer located in some real place - which is subject to the laws of that land. That way, real pedophiles can still be prosecuted even when they are operating avatars in virtual spaces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes this concept has come up several times in the past decade, but it elides the fact that cyber worlds - whether SecondLife or any other virtual space is hosted on real computer servers in real geographic locations governed by the laws of that geographic location. </p>
<p>It also elides the fact that the participants in these virtual worlds are real people who themselves are governed by the laws of whatever land they live in. Virtual worlds are nothing more or less than open-ended phone calls - which themselves are governed by agreed national and international standards (arranged by Governments and telecommunications companies who are members of the UN International Telecommunications Union (ITU)).</p>
<p>So, while idealistically people can move their avatars around a virtual &#8217;space&#8217; the only real space they take up is the ones and zeros of a computer located in some real place - which is subject to the laws of that land. That way, real pedophiles can still be prosecuted even when they are operating avatars in virtual spaces.</p>
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		<title>By: karz</title>
		<link>http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9611</link>
		<dc:creator>karz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vtoreality.com/2007/virtual-legality-food-for-thought/1183/#comment-9611</guid>
		<description>I believe the second par should read this way:

"Cyber-world crosses these boundaries by merging such territories into a new world, a virtual territory. Its boundaries defined only by the extent and reaches of a pulsating sub-atomic connectivity."

I have since edited it in my other blog. I did not mean the extension of government sovereign power beyond  its jurisdiction. What I had in mind was the merger of different sovereignties in a sense that in a democracy sovereignty emanates and resides in the people or what they call in political law "the sovereign will".

Thank you so much for pointing it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the second par should read this way:</p>
<p>&#8220;Cyber-world crosses these boundaries by merging such territories into a new world, a virtual territory. Its boundaries defined only by the extent and reaches of a pulsating sub-atomic connectivity.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have since edited it in my other blog. I did not mean the extension of government sovereign power beyond  its jurisdiction. What I had in mind was the merger of different sovereignties in a sense that in a democracy sovereignty emanates and resides in the people or what they call in political law &#8220;the sovereign will&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for pointing it out.</p>
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